For almost two weeks, Harringey Council has refused to make public the minutes of a key meeting that took place last summer.
But Reds Away has finally obtained the minutes under the Freedom of Information Act.
One of the key points discussed was United fans standing at away games.
Lou Elliston, who is an inspector with the Sports Ground Safety Advisory Group, which helps local councils deal with safety issues at sports venues in their area.
The minutes say: ‘Lou Ellison…stated that at the recent Champions League Final at Wembley, Manchester United supporters stood to a man, even on level five.
‘Although there had been an agreement between Wembley and Manchester United to sell (the) top two tiers to family (supporters) only, this was proven not to be the case.
‘Due to this Brent Council will be reviewing the allocation for Manchester United in the future.’
Reds Away has asked Brent Council if this is the case.
Ms Ellison also said that Wembley’s safety officer had given a presentation to the FA about Manchester United.
Jeff Williams, a team leader with the London Fire Brigade, also spoke at the meeting.
The minutes say: ‘Jeff Williams was previously on Wembley Stadium’s safety advisory group and stated that Manchester United was an issue then and asked if The FA would not get involved.”
United’s allocation at August’s Community Shield was the same as it had been in the previous year’s Community Shield.
But the discussion raises serious issues about what kind of allocation United would get if they reached the FA Cup semi final and/or final, especially as final allocations are already restricted to 25,000 anyway.
However, the issue could be most controversial when it comes to the UEFA Champions League as next season’s final will take place at Wembley.
Usually, each club gets 25,000 and several hundred of those are sold via Thomas Cook Sport rather than through United’s ballot process.
A reduced availability of such tickets could anger fans, especially as the issue for such a cut has only been revealed due to an FOI request.
Another kick in the teeth, the problem is a team such as Stoke can get to a semi/final stand all game and probably not make any issues with safety groups as they are unlikely to get back there anytime soon.
Vitty do the minutes mention any other club for any other game or is it just relating to the Champions League Final?
why is it that united seem to be the focus of every report like this….. most fans of other teams at wembley have stood regardless of where they are sat and yet united get singled out again.
i’ve been at every wembley game over the last few years and generally thought we were well behaved at every one of them.
Barca fans all stood up at the Champions league final.
If a German club gets to next years final, they will all stand.
You find that United fans in the first few rows of the upper tiers, all usually sit down.
What happens in the numerous neutral sections where tickets are sold to individuals and not clubs? how can they police these areas in future, not as if they can threaten selling to neutrals or club wembley members etc.
(Just for the record TCS got 200 tickets for Wembley CL final rather than thousands)
This is an absolute joke. But we now have advance warning (thanks to Vitty) and this enables us to counter these arguments rather than stay silent until it is too late.
Our fans are wonderful when motivated and can be very influential when we mobilise in numbers but properly, sensibly and peacefully.
There would be nothing wrong with a letter bombardment of relevant people re Wembley especially. Ifwe are still in the FA Cup after this weekend there would be no better time.
Middlesbrough only getting an allocation of 3,000 at Sunderland tomorrow instead of 7,000 due to standing on previous visits.
Hardly had a mention in any papers, yet our allocation reductions get publicised. We never get any coverage for good behaviour, only when we have faced an initial reduction and its been increased again.
Several clubs get a reduced allocation at Sunderland and Villa, yet ours only seems to be the one thats ever highlighted.
yes we do have a problem and a large number of persistent offenders arent concerned about it. Away at stoke this season was a major problem in the aisles, worst ive seen at a United game, yet those standing in them are faces you see at every away. blocks of seats remained empty, yet people wouldnt move into them. the same people are some of the first to moan or beg for a ticket when allocations are reduced.
On the issue with wembley, if they reduce the Utd allocation its just increasing black market demand, with the majority of black market tickets coming from FA Clubs allocations (For fA Cup finals) and club wembley/neutral tickets.
I don’t think the FA care about black market demand in practice, otherwise 1/3 of seats wouldn’t go to neutrals yet end up in hamnds of fans of the clubs every single season in every final. They rightly care about touting generally and fans selling on tickets yet somehow, wrongly, are less concerned by their guests selling them on as if it is their prerogative. The ‘football family’ tickets are the first to go for big money every year in FA Cup finals.
It is important we make sure there is awareness of our good behaviour too. Villa and Anfield this season were big successes, and our fans were praised by all sorts of people from councils, home clubs, police forces and the Premier League. It is then nonsense to read in haringay minutes that apparently more and more clubs are cutting our allocations when the trend is starting to reverse.
Journos horrified by the Wembley issue and so we should get some anti-Brent Council pieces on the side of our fans. Keep an eye out on Henry Winter blog etc shortly.
Have never seen any problems at Wembley with United fans blocking the aisles. The City semi final game last year me and my 2 mates were the only fans stood up around us everyone was sitting down – stewards didn’t have a problem with us standing as long as we weren’t in the gangways which was fine.
On a separate note, I wrote to Phil Gartside Boltons Chairman and asked why our allocation Is so low compared to what Man City and Liverpool get there and he said its reduced because of “persistent standing”.
Absolutely ridiculous because both City and Liverpool fans all stand when they play at the Reebok
Tom – that’s a losing battle: Bolton don’t break Premier League rules with their allocation for us.
Bolton are £100 million in debt.
If I were a Bolton fan I’d be screaming out for Gartside to make sound commercial decisions such as selling seats above the minimum required away allocation to neutral fans who spend good money on hospitality.
Agree with Tufty regarding Stoke away this season, it was chaos in the aisles. Fulham was worse though, but we know that is down to the neutral end not being segregated. This Wembley issue is a kick in the stones though.
This is ridicilous. These councils should have no part in football allocations and the fa should start fighting back, they dont have a clue. Football is a game that fans from all teams, be in altrincham or manutd stand especially at away games and to say you can’t stand at wembley is a joke. Never known a team not to stand at wembley. United get hit by all angles for doing nothing wrong.
Thanks for the information vitty, together we are strong
this is bollocks!they weren’t complaining when they were taking £200 for my cup final ticket last year.for that price i wanted to be sat on a throne with beer on tap
It surely won’t lead to empty seats though? FA need as much money as possible, and what club will be able to take on an increased allocation if they gave more seats to the opposition…they would end up flogging them to us.
I suppose we’ll know more after today if we have a chance of going, and at least the CS is at Villa Park