Despite holding talks with UEFA, United and United fans’ groups, Athletic Club have not only refused to cut the price, but have also refused to reveal significant information about what some of their fans will actually be paying.
To find out about the issue and find out how to sign the petition, read our Q and A below.
Q. What is this all about?
United will play Athletic Club Bilbao in the UEFA Europa League round of 16 second leg on Thursday March 15.
Q. How much are they being charged for tickets?
£77.50 or, to put it another way, 86p per minute – and there is no concessionary price.
Tribuna Sur Baja, behind the goal in the lower tier
Q. And what are Athletic Club fans in the same end paying?
According to Athletic Club, the entire Tribuna Sur Baja end will be used only by United fans, but they say their fans sitting in most other areas of the stadium are also paying £77.50.
Q. So what’s the problem?
Athletic Club fans who became members at the start of the season enjoy a massive discount.
Some sources claim they only pay a maximum of e30 (£25.34) for match tickets, but Athletic Club have refused to tell us exactly how much of a discount members get.
Q. What’s the stadium capacity?
40,000
Q. How many tickets have United got?
1,715
Q. How many members have Athletic Club got?
Roughly 30,000
Q. So assuming all of those buy tickets for this game, does that mean up to 8,000 Athletico Club fans will also pay top whack?
Yes, but remember that Athletic Club members view those fans as part timers who are paying a premium because they are only going to a big game.
Q. But United fans aren’t. Isn’t it the case that, in order to go to this game, you must be at least One United member?
Yes. And that’s what makes the situation so unfair. Bilbao are penalising United fans for not being Athletic Club members.
Q. What have United said?
That they raised the issue with Athletic Club, but made little progress, and were hoping further talks would lead to progress, without expecting much to come from it.
Q. What have Athletic Club said?
A club spokesman said: “We are really sorry you consider this price is too high but these are the seats were the visiting supporters are seated every UEFA Europe League match at San Mames Stadium, and at the very same price.
“This is were our police tells us they have to be located for security reasons.
“Athletic Club fans seated in similar tribunes will have to pay the same price, except members who have a discount.
“Athletic Club is a private club and this is why our members have a discount.
“We are not a Limited Company and members do not have to pay for league and cup matches but they have to pay something, though less than general public, for international matches.
“These prices are exactly the same as our club matches set for the group stage games against Paris Saint Germain, Salzburg and Slovan Bratislava and in the round of 16 phase against FC Lokomotiv.
“ Also, the Athletic Club would like to emphasize that this is the same price to be paid by our team fans wishing to attend the party in the rest of San Mamés stands, except the Principal, whose entries will cost more.
Q. Given Athletic Club’s unreasonable stance, what can we do?
Two things:
You can sign this petition, which Reds Away will present to them to indicate just how strongly we feel about this exploitation of our fans.
You can also write to UEFA urging them to introduce a sensible limit on member discount.
We know Manchester United offer a £5 discount to One United members for some games at Old Trafford.
While some may regard that as unfair, it is clearly not in the same bracket as a mark up of up to £52.16 as in the case of Athletic Club.
Reds Away will publish a sample letter later today for you to email to UEFA should you wish.
Oli, I’m sure I have read on here that if you apply for a euro away, and fail in the ballot, that is still classed as a credit?! Correct me if I’m wrong.
matt d what a silly question.
Matt,
For euro away games if you apply and are unsuccessful then you do get a credit, however this is only likely to be the case on 1 occasion, as once you have 1 credit ur chances of being successful in the next euro away ballot are far greater. MUFC are not going to give someone a credit for being successful but not bothering to attend game (regardless of ticket price issues). It is however going to reward a credit to an unsuccessful applicant on the basis that they will be attending at least 1 euro away during the course of the season.
A failed ballot application will only occur if the ballot is over-subscribed. Only in this instance will you get a credit without attending.
Not quite Nick. if for example you applied for Ajax and didnt get one in the ballot, you would get a credit. however, if for example we got City or an easy to get to game in the next round, that one credit wouldnt guarantee you a ticket. You would need about 4 or 5 credits to get one for City.
Yet, you would still get another credit for applying.
If you got a Bilbao ticket (Which everyone did) and its either returned or not collected, then you wont get a credit for it.
MattD, you didn’t fail in the ballot though so that doesn’t apply to you. why would you apply rules to people who fail in the ballot to yourself who was successful – they are polar opposites.
Others have explained this above but, in short, you get a credit for either a) being successful and collecting the ticket abroad or b) being unsuccessful so not having the choice of collecting abroad. However, no credit for being successful and then not going when you had the chance to.
Tuffey,
I agree on City, I was being more general, basing it on any team but city!
We would only get about 2,000ish for City, depending again on safety issues etc… So I think a minimum of 3 to 4 away credits will be needed! In a way I am hoping to get City in the next round as I will defo get a ticket with 5 away credits, I’ve never been able to get a City away ticket in ballot, and they have always been too expensive via other methods! I also think we can beat them over 2 legs, however we have got to get past Bilbao 1st tho so not getting too carried away just yet!
On another note, does anyone know how many we have sold for Bilbao away, Ticket office say 50-60 tickets left, but at the high price are they being honest?
Nick,
Re Bilbao, there are 60 left not including the ones they always hold back, so am only guessing but is prob nearer 200, plus anyone who returned them in 24 hour period after ballot closed. Plus any put aside for TCS that don’t sell.
I am in the Far East for both legs of the quarter finals (if we qualify) so will be gutted if we get City. Somewhere we have played before like Valencia perfect for me seeing as am missing it! Then City or Atheltic Madrid in semis. But think we may lose to Bilbao, they are decent.
Oli
Matt,
A failed ballot application will only occur if the ballot is over-subscribed. Only in this instance will you get a credit without attending.
Slightly off topic. I’m sure most of you have already seen we’ll only get 9k (initially) for the final should we reach it.
What do we think will guarantee a ticket for the final? I think it’ll be 5 credits (4 Europa homes and 1 away). What do people think?
Do we know how many applied for Ajax?
Just to clarify, if we were to get city, a home credit will have the same strength as a away credit? This is unlike the champions league where away credits are treated with priority for the away fixture?
Robscot,
The home credits only come into force for the final, until then only away credits are taken into account for away games. Therefore if we get city next round you would need at least 3, if not 4 euro away credits for the away game!
Am I right in thinking members are eligable for final tickets (credit depending)?
Yes Luke, if a standard member has been to 3, 4 or 5 away euro games he wud defo be in with a chance of a final ticket! I think MUFC do it pretty fairly as far as euro games are concerned!
Luke & nick unless they have changed the criteria this year no members will be allowed to apply for a euro final ticket , that was one of the reason why Thomas Cook caused world war 3 last may when they did packages for anyone and season ticket holders missed out in the ballot!
@Luke…I wrote to TO last week regarding how many members have 5-1 credits after both ajax games,and got an answer, that I can’t get info about it…and the criteria for the possible final is not confirmed yet,although in december we got the criteria on our mails…
well Matt71, if you read http://www.manutd.com/en/Tickets-And-Hospitality/Tickets-And-Hospitality-News/2011/Dec/europa-league-away-ticket-credits.aspx ,
then I am not so sure, that STholders will have an advantage for the final if we will reach it…as I know a word “supporter” doesn’t mean only STHs…
Yeah, I thought I read something about members being eligible for a final. Not sure I agree with that.
Me, that was optimistic! It’d be much better if they were transparent with things like that. They were following the Basle game. It was really interesting to see those figures.
Eddy,
Try Vueling for the Barca/Bilbao flights…
Jim ,booked with vueling barca/bilbao abput an hour ago my sons buzzin for it now. happy days cheers eddy
Oli,
I agree with most things you say on here and I agree with the majority of what you say regarding the LP. As you rightly point out, members of the LP are there on merit, fair enough. My objection is there are plenty now who, for whatever reason don’t attend all (or most) the games. These people I feel should relinquish their privilege of being in the LP. The only way I can envisage that happening is ticket collection at away games for all fans. If fans are attending the games then this shouldn’t be a problem. I accept it is an inconvenience, but a necessary one. This wouldn’t be a case of fans proving their loyalty, they’ve already done that, but should be viewed as a necessary evil to ensure genuine fans get the tickets which ultimately is all anyone one here is asking for. This would greatly reduce (but not eliminate) touting too. I also believe we’d see a drop in the number of SP applications, as people would only apply if they intended to go.
Ticket collection wouldn’t need to be at every game maybe ten a season would be enough to have the desired affect. The finer details, such as opting out could also be factored into any proposal. For me this is the only way forward.
The bigger issue is we don’t get enough away tickets to satisfy everyone. What needs to be acknowledged is STH really do get a raw deal. It’s not unusual for an STH to not get an away all season and to get more than one is considered to be lucky. This isn’t execs fault, or LP members, or even the TO, it’s just we don’t get enough tickets. Any measures introduced by the TO would be seen as a step forward and would get people on their side a bit more IMO.
Members cannot apply for the final if we get there,as has been the case for the last 3 champions league finals.
Luke, totally agree with what you say. A few test collections would be fine, but club never going to swallow cost of doing more than that. On principle is fine and fair.
Stewart, you are wrong, and this is not a Champions League final. The main difference between the two tournaments is that Europa League home games are not in cup scheme and therefore ST holders and members are in the same boat – all can decide how many credits they have in the competition as a whole.
Re the 9k allocation generally, it is of course a disgrace. The reason is that 20k are going to the Romanian public plus 3k to other fans applying on uefa website. Compare this to the CL final at Wembley where 10k in total went to the public in a much bigger stadium. Less actually go to sponsors and ‘football family’ etc in this match. But having said that, will there be much more demand for a third rate trophy final in Bucharest. Remember we struggled to sell out for Moscow and that was a CL final much more in demand. When it comes down to how many will want to pay to go to Bucharest at great expense for this game, should we get there, there will be plenty to go round.
Me: cheers for the link looks like I may have given duff information sorry
I’m afraid you’re probably right, Oli. It’s such a shame the club won’t invest a bit to appease the masses.
As for the Europa League final, should we require there has been extra tickets allocated by Uefa that have remained unsold from the neutral allocation. This certainly was the case last year for the Portuguese teams and has happened in other finals too. Don’t know what the uptake of the 20k neutral seats will be like in Romania.
I’m afraid you’re probably right, Oli. It’s such a shame the club won’t invest a bit to appease the masses.
As for the Europa League final, should we require there may be extra tickets allocated by Uefa that have remained unsold from the neutral allocation. This certainly was the case last year for the Portuguese teams and has happened in other finals too. Don’t know what the uptake of the 20k neutral seats will be like in Romania.
Understand what you are saying oli,but i thought a perk of having an st was being able to apply for finals before a member regardless of how many credits you may or may not have?
Stewart,
I think that changed when we were dumped out the Champions League, and entered into the Europa. People were then allowed to opt out the auto cup scheme, which meant the TO had to provide incentives for people to still buy the home EL tickets, including members!
Cheers Luke got it now,not sure i agree with it tho.
eddy
i’m also flying leeds to barca then on 8 o’clock flight to bilbao.
will be driving to leeds bradford airport. space in car if you need a lift.
I reckon the uptake on 20k seats in Romania will be high if we or city or both get there. They will then appear all over ebay or be flogged on to us lot at vastly inflated prices. It happens every time we get to a European final.
Last year I had a scouser trying to sell a mate of mine 2 CL final tickets for 3 grand. I nearly decked him!
We’ve got a tough game to worry about first though.
luke
in regards to domestic away ticket allocations.what about a reverse credit system,so every time you are chubbed you receive a credit then the next away those on credits get seen to first.most apply knowing even if they don’t fancy what they do get they can move tickets on.using a credit system if you apply and get then you go back to no credits for the next one.i think this will reduce the amount of people applying for every match regardless of intentions to go.
over the course of a season this should make more standard pot applications happy knowing they will at least get a few games.it will at least put an end to not getting any at all which most of us get right now.
Higgo, the Bucharest ballot for the 20k closes before the finalists are known, so that makes it harder for people to buy based on predicted finalists. People take a punt on applying for CL final tickets as always sold ouit and can always be sold on, and even neutrals want to see Utd/ Barca/ Madrid etc. This tournament a diff story.
Luke, it is not all about investment and appeasing the masses. Remember way more people apply for the odd away game and final than apply for them all – otherwise the loyalty pot would have had 10k not 1400 people in it when started. Most people want the option of applying and a chance of getting a ticket when they apply and not to be ruled out of getting if they don’t do all or nothing. You cannot assume everyone feels the same as regular away fans, just as the majority of ST holders apply for no aways at all.
Stewart, I was stating a fact about the system being implemented, not my own view on what is right or wrong. But there will be no demand for final tickets anyway so it is a pointless debate, any ST holder or member who wants to go to Bucharest if we get there will be able to.
Darby, that sounds like the most awful idea for away tickets. You are essentially telling someone that if they apply for Norwich (which they want to go to) then they cannot go to Spurs (which they may prefer)- penalising loyalty for them applying for the lesser game and encouraging fans to pick and choose games more than they want to. Forget it!
Oli,
I don’t deny there has to be a large element of the ballot that is totally random. I’m just suggesting how the TO could ensure a fairer distribution of tickets without alienating LP/Execs which I think we all agree on. If stricter guidelines were in place, then the SP members would see greater sucess rates in the ballot. The current system isn’t working. Touts are maintaining thier status in the LP by simply applying for tickets online once a week and then selling them on. I admit this is only a small but still significant element.
I think that figure of 1400 when the LP started would be much nearer the 5-6k mark if the inclusion criteria was to have applied for 95% of games during the qualifying period. I for one would have fallen into that category and now I’m stuck in the standard pot. I don’t resent the LP, good luck to anyone in it. I certainly wouldn’t give it up easily. I do resent people who abuse it though.
Darby, I don’t think it’s a terrible idea. It would be hard to implement but if a small portion of tickets, say 5% on allocations >2k (100 tickets) went to those with the most consecutive knock backs, it would guarantee people didn’t go seasons without success. Equally, returns could go to those who have waited longest.
Luke, I quite like your tweak to Darby’s idea in theory, but in reality it would actually make no difference.
There are around 3k who apply for every single away game in standard pot (and about 5k pick and chose a bit more). So if 100 tickets went essentially to those people per match (which is 10% of tickets allocated to standard pot essentially), it would take 30 away games for all those people to get just one away ticket and then have to rejoin back of the queue for the 100 tickets. 1 in 30 games is essentially one away ticket per season.
And at the same time, more people would start applying for every away game knowing success depended on it, therefore making that 1 in 30 even lower.
So, at best, you would get one extra away per season but as less go to to rest of the standard pot as a result of these being put aside, you could actually end up getting 1 less than you do now via luck of the draw anyway. Is it worth all that admin hassle to MAYBE get one more away ticket per season?
oli
all i want to see is equal chances for everyone when tickets for away games are in very short supply.
loyalty pot and exec allocations scrapped a.s.a.p.
i’ve offered to buy tickets from online sites to find out who is supplying away tickets at inflated prices so united can exclude those who do this from applying again.however united say once a ticket has been allocated they can do what they want with it. in an ideal world should you apply for an away ticket and get one through the ballot system then you should use it or return it.
so yes fans should only apply for games they intend to go to not simply apply for every game because they know they can move tickets on if they don’t fancy what they get.
unless united change their stance on domestic away tickets nothing will change.we will still have fans who will never get an away ticket through our present system for years at a time.
i myself apply only for the games i would go to and this year i’ve got leeds only.last year i got birmingham hopefully next year i might get another !!
Oli, you’re right. In isolation it isn’t a solution but if other measures were in place such as ticket collections (sorry to bring up again) this would reduce the frivolous applications, meaning those that do apply intend to go, and those who regularly miss out will eventually be rewarded.
For me, it’s not just about increasing the success rate but increasing how fairly tickets are distributed.
I take on board what you’re saying about those applying for every game as a consequence of this system. I suspect that may increase but not massively. People are already applying anyway as success is already dependent on an application, so that aspect doesn’t really change and those applying for isolated games i.e. FA cup game still have a very similar chance of success.
Darby, I wouldn’t want to see the LP scrapped. There’s some very loyal reds in there. That wouldn’t be fair but it wouldn’t be a bad idea to see if those in there are still attending, ie as loyal as they were 10 years ago when the pot was formed.
Execs is a tricky one. They could be squeezed a bit more tightly for tickets but unfortunately they provide huge income for Utd. There are also some very loyal Exec reds that only stump up so much money so they can get away tickets too.
No need to scrap LP, as said their reds, but it needs tweaking, Oli re your numbers, yes I do think Std STs would appreciate the chance of one extra success a season as some go a season without any success and std STs realise their not going get many successes but get none is clearly wrong, wasn’t saying just Lp look for spares but just generally people help out others(a good thing) and some people apply by multiple ways if they’ve that opportunity , yes the LP has diminished slightly each season which helps std STHs but there’s thousands more STHs eligible to apply now compared to when LP was, created, which has greatly diminished std SThs chances, re a away ST, difference is mufc have more demand and more people eligible to apply than any other club, so would be difficult for mufc to do 900 Away STs( further reducing Std pot chances and when you consider many aways are under 3k these days and some as low as 1700-200, don’t think Exec is the problem its made out to be, up to 700 tickets between potentially 8-10k execs is fair. Thou don’t think they should be able to apply for 1 for 1 for blackburn as that’s the one opportunity mufc have in league to make sure thousands of Std STHs are successful.
Meant their loyal reds, LP members mainly only get knocks when low/reduced allocation of 2000 or lower, if it wasn’t for these allocations their LP success would be higher than 85% plus on occasion they and Execs get priority on return tickets. while at the same time many Std STHs don’t have a success all season and now aren’t even able to ring for a return.
Paul,
Just to clarify a small point, you last post is incorrect. Loyalty Pot has 85% when the allocation is 3000. If allocation is lower, percentage is lower. Only Blackburn, semi finals etc rebalance that when all LP get. But LP didn’t all get CL final at Wembley, their domestic status was irrelevent and was done on their eurp away credit numbers only.
Oli
Darby,
You really are spouting nonsense. Not even worth bothering addressing your calls for everything to be scrapped, no one on here will agree with you and others are already telling you that.
Your point about United not caring about resale/ touting is also utter bollocks. Any away ticket that is sold on can be traced and supporter banned/ excluded from future away tickets. Anyone who has written to the club essentially dobbing someone in will know that, lots of cases of action being taken. But it is also pretty stupid to scrap an entire system in case a few individuals ‘may’ have abused a system. Do you abolish the army if one soldier breaks a rule or close down hospitals if one nurse is late for a shift? That’s the equiv of what you are saying – scrap rewarding loyalty and loyalty pot in case one or a few of the members who proved themselves over years may have missed a match. If anything, make LP bigger with more loyal fans who don’t want to pick and choose games and wnat to go everywhere.
Your posts simply don’t change that there are more people wanting away tickets than tickets available, and whatever system is implemented thousands will be rejected. Whatever system is implemented you won’t get for the games you want for. The club have a loyalty system in place and yet you’re the one calling for that to be scrapped just because you aren’t part of it. Thousands want to do every game, and everyone on here wants that loyalty rewarded, but you want to pick and choose games which means all of us on here want a system whereby you don’t get any at all.
Oli
Paul, re the “yes I do think Std STs would appreciate the chance of one extra success a season”, I also noted that may not even happen. Firstly, it would take tickets away from rest of standard pot and reduce chances and secondly, the system would encourage more people to apply for every game and therefore reduce chances of each person too. Plus if we do not play 30 away games a season (usually we do not) that is a whole season where some would still not get the 1/30 anyway.
And Darby, as I do some of the touting related stuff for a living, I want to properly shoot you down in flames on that point. The resale of football tickets is illegal under section 166 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.
This Act stipulates that it is an offence for an unauthorised person to sell a ticket for a designated football match or otherwise dispose of such a ticket to another person.
In addition to this, the rules and regulations of all Premier League and other English tickets (plus UEFA) state that tickets remain the property of clubs and can be confiscated should the club wish.
Oli you stated you had 3 failed apps this season, so that’s 16 out of 19 domestic ballot so far, know of others with similar numbers, LP will get Blackburn, so 17/20, that’s about 85% success rate, only time their is a lot LP knocked back, is when low allocations like Swansea 1900, Aldershot 1400, liverpool 1965 and spurs 2000, the reality is Mufc are unable to give 900 to LP for them games when such low allocations, if Swansea and Aldershot had given us similar allocations to what we get at most aways, then no LP would have likely got chubbed at them either, I know we got what we allocated what we were entitled to in both and we know that Europe is a separate criteria and one that works well, re priority on occasion re returns to LP/Execs, this happened at liverpool PL and QPR to name 2.
Paul.
I am stating facts about the 85% figure when allocation is 3000, and I know plenty in LP with more knock backs this season than me. You cannot use one person’s ballot results as indicative for everyone. My knock backs were Aldershot, Chelsea (full allocation) and Everton (full allocation). I got for Anfield and others with lower allocations.
The club has no reason to say it will ensure an 85% success for LP in an allocation of 3000 and then give LP members more than that. It is actually in their interests to do the opposite surely. If you are going to lie about numbers, then you’d only get credit if the people you are helping knew about it…. and no one had told LP members anything other than 85% when 3000.
Oli
darby, thanks for the lift offer but ive already booked car park at leeds. we are also on 20.00 flight to bilbao.. cheers eddy
PS Europe has always been treated differently re credits, but LP members were always given final tickets until Wembley. When everyone with credits has been allocated a final ticket, they then have a random ballot for those with no credits at all and I assume they’d always fixed part of that random ballot so that all LP came up trumps. That made sense as was essentially choosing between someone who has been to all home and aways, and someone else who has not been to anything but home games, plus it didn’t shaft anyone as LP with no Euro credits were still behind all people with any credits. For Wembley, however, plenty of people with no credits got and people with LP and no credits did not in many cases. In my view that is wrong, though I doubt it affected many people as how many do every domestic away and don’t even apply for one euro away (inc Chelsea)?
oli
sorry mate if i’ve upset you these are just my feelings on the matter i’ve been watching united since 1975 and never been able to afford the time or cost of going round the country watching united every time they play. but i do like to watch as many as i can.
the loyalty pot and the exec situation has never sat well with me and yes i do understand the problems we have as regards tickets available for away games.i like many others would like to think all our fans young or old will get the fairest system possible.i know as well as you do the current system is open to abuse.
regarding touting tickets are available for all united away games on ticket sites,my question to united was why not when you know who you have allocated tickets to can they not trace the fans who sell them on via those sites.the answer i got was because unless a fan reported a particular abuse ie: ticket number and where it was purchased from they could not do anything about it.
while i was talking to them in the ticket office i asked them to log on to a particular site and they saw over 40 tickets available for a united away game but said they were not prepaired to do anything about it because as they say “it goes on all the time anyway”
so like you say i’m shot down in flames
Just a quick point, does anyone know why when Bilbao came to United asking for a larger allocation (3,800 to 6,000) why didn’t United use this as a bargaining tool – For example, yeah we will give you extra tickets for your fans at Old Trafford but only if you reduce the price for our fans at your place?!