While last Thursday’s draw provided a wave of excitement for reds licking their lips at the prospect of going to Madrid, not everyone was happy at the way some tickets for the game are handed out.
Here is a Q&A on the issue as it stands.
Q. How many tickets will United get for this game?
Probably between 3,000 and 3,300, if you consider UEFA rules and what other teams with big followings have had at previous games.
Q. How will they be distributed?
Those who went to Braga, Cluj and Galatasaray away will definitely get tickets and it is extremely likely that fans who went to at least one of those games will get them.
This only a guess, but about if 1,000 people went to at least one game and, say, 700 of those can go to Madrid, that will leave about 2,300 tickets.
Q. How will they be handed out?
Thomas Cook Sport (TCS) gets its share and then executive members, season ticket holders and One United Members with no credits can apply.
Q. So what’s the deal with TCS?
If you’re an executive member, a season ticket holder or a One United Member, you were able to buy a travel package which guaranteed you a ticket – even if you had no credits.
Q. How many people took advantage of that?
We aren’t sure because it won’t say and neither will United.
Judging by its website, there were five ticket-and-travel packages on sale and all of them are sold out, even though three never went on sale online and so many never have been sold (though they could have been sold by phone.
At most, TCS could have sold 1,000 tickets, though we’re not sure.
It’s likely to be nearer 400.
Q. So why is this an issue?
We’re certain everyone with at least one credit who wants a ticket for Madrid will get one, especially as some of those will have booked with TCS.
But some argue there will be times when the allocation will be lower and people with credits miss out to fans with no credits who ‘jumped the queue’.
Q. Has it ever happened?
Yes. When we last got to the final, season ticket holders with no credits were able to buy such packages ahead of people with credits and people who weren’t even able to apply.
A similar thing happened when we played Ajax last season.
Q. So what should happen?
The Manchester United Supporters’ Trust wants TCS to allow people with credits first dibs on its packages.
Q. What has MUST said?
Its chief executive officer Duncan Drasdo said:
“The exciting tie with Real Madrid has caused more ticketing issues.
The club’s official travel partner, Thomas Cook, have already put five plane loads of tickets on offer to be bought by any member or season ticket holder of Manchester United on a first-come first-served basis.
These expensive trips do not give priority to fans with loyalty credits from previous games in the Champions League, unlike the club’s own ticket ballot which will prioritise fans who made the long trips to support United in the group stage games in Cluj, Braga and Istanbul.
Thomas Cook and Manchester United have always refused to share information on how many tickets Thomas Cook are entitled to, sometimes leading to bizarre and unfair policies such as members getting a Champions League final ticket for Wembley in 2011 by buying a package, whilst over 20,000 season ticket holders were not even permitted to apply for a ticket via the club.
It is time that Manchester United and Thomas Cook agreed to have a coherent and transparent system of allocating tickets, so that Thomas Cook can still fill up their trips but giving priority first to those who have accrued loyalty credits recognised by the club.”
Q. Is TCS doing anything legally wrong?
No. It has a commercial agreement with United and wants to make money, but prioritising those with credits is unlikely to harm its profit margins, but it would give it brownie points among fans.
MikeL, I don’t judge aboutnwho goes to what, so good luck getting a ticket for Madrid and hope you have a great time in Oz too.
I agree with you about TCS undermining the credit system, but I don’t think it is an issue until people with credits don’t get and people with no credits do, which isn’t the case for Madrid. Someone with no credits can get a ticket through TcS or through club ballot in this case. Plus, when you say tourists, they need t be members, the same as the club criteria to appply.
As others have said, if it were up to me, I’d ask TCS to take bookings from people with credits for 24 hours first them open it up. The club should also reveal numbers with credits so those worrying will know how likely they are to get or not as soon as possible to make plans.
Agree with everything Oli has said here.
This happens everytime a big euro away crops up.
Didn’t see the arguments for tickets for Bursaspor, Istanbul or Cluj?
Only time I see an issue or it should be changed is, similar to Ajax. When people with credits miss out, if that occurs then Thomas cook day trippers should miss out. That’s fair.
Danny, can’t believe you saying euro aways are no effort and just a few days on the beer. I nearly lost my job by going to Istanbul, it cost me much more than I could realistically afford, but I still did it because sometimes you have to make sacrifices in order to see rewards later on. But obviously you should have exactly the same chances as me and plenty of other people who made the effort to go to group games…
Rob with the greatest respect, in the grand scale of things people don’t book a euro away thinking about work. Granted you make sacrifices, but if you risk your job and spend more money than you have, that’s your perogative. If you read every post then you’d see I said that people with all the credits do deserve a ticket over somebody like myself. But I’m not gonna go all misty eyed over it, nobody forced you to go mate.
Another stupid post Danny.
No one forced Rob to go to Istanbul just as no one forces you to buy a season ticket. Or to go to any football match. we can’t have a ballot just of people who were FORCED to go rather than those who went and enjoyed it can we?!
Any chance some of the posts on here could be filtered, while everyone is entitled to their opinion we all know the rules for euro away games.
That wasn’t the point I was getting at, I was just stating the story of risking his job and not being able to realistically afford it was irrelevant, Rob would of had a credit going to one of the other away’s.
Nothing irrelevant about losing you’re job mate, it’s about what you want to do, if you want to make sacrifices to go to the group games you deserve first shout for the knockout stages.
The worrying thing is how many people are going to have credits for the QF should we get past Madrid due to being chubbed in the Madrid ballot.. Probably gonna be somewhere near the 5000 mark, no? Have to hope the bandwagonners will have fallen off by then..
Danny,
Are you suggesting you should only go to enough games to get required credits and forget the rest? I doubt Rob’s mentality was to only go tomIstanbul for a credit, it would be to support the team. Just as you don’t buy a season ticket and then go to no games, knowing owning it is enough to renew for the next season.
Also, without the benefit of hindsight, no one knew who we would play in the next round, what allocation would be and how many group games they needed to go to in order to be ok for the knock outs.
Oli
Stewart mate I said earlier on I understand that people who attended the group games should get priority over somebody who didnt like me, just that the whole story of losing your job etc makes no odds when there was previous group games you could attend.
Danny, a lot of clued up people on this blog, who mainly come here because it avoids the muppets on many of the other sites.
When you can literally find no one to agree with you on a forum like this, it might be because you’re just very very wrong.
No, im suggesting Rob said that you attend these games to be rewarded later on, which suggests one of the reasons he went is to get a credit for a ‘big game’ later on, no?
You’re not making any sense to me mate, anyhow if you get a ticket enjoy!!
Agree Stewart.
Assume Danny is pretty young, new to a lot this, means well and just doesn’t quite get it.
Interesting debate here on Euro away allocations.
I am a one united member and an ex season ticket holder who has done the last eight euro aways. As a devoted United fan for the last 36 years I wish to put a few points across.
My european travel supporting our team is done cheaply but still costs more than a season ticket does. Its too expensive for me to go home/away/europe and I have made the decision to travel to as many aways as I can. Sometimes I get in to see domestic aways.
Fair point on Execs and STH having priority over members. 3 euro away credits apiece and the member should be at the back. But its fair that a member with 3 credits has priority over others with less.
Sometimes flight are horrendous. If you can’t get to London until nearly midnight on tuesday, then you go to London Liverpool St and wait a few hours for the train to Stansted for the Porto flight. Buses at 4am from Braga back to the airport. Its true as well the Away end at Gala was a bit thin. Not many went to Turkey to see the reserves. But that is circumstances, time and money as well. Many genuinely could not.
Madrid is a good popular draw but with help from Redsaway I had been well prepared to go to Ukraine regardless.
The EXEC/STH perk is the domestic away ballot. For members its Euro aways.
TCS and United both do well out of their cosy partnership. The travel agent having OT and Euro Away allocations is a good earner. Transparency is needed and to provide it with the numbers of those with one, two and three credits would be easy and painless for all.
Danny are you at the wind up, if so you’ve got us hook and line mate..
No mate. Was just joining in a debate, as I’ve said before apologies for any offence, and for the record yep I am new to this lot, as i said before I’m not a ‘ big red ‘ I’m a united fan is all.
I think the reasons we all go are because we enjoy it. Without that there would be no point. I doubt anyone went to any of the group stage games purely to get a credit incase we got a decent draw in the Knock outs.
Totally agree Jack. But while we all enjoy it, we also make big sacrifices to go. And we all put up with being locked in grounds, queuing at ticket collection points etc etc which is why there is a loyalty there that should be recognised.
Fair do’s Danny, that’s what we all are mate.
I rarely comment on things like this but follow with intrigue.
Danny: Your logic is a *touch* skewed my friend. I think you should quit whilst you are slightly ahead.
Good points across the board Oli and appreciate you pointing out that people with one credit should be alright. I’ve got one from Cluj but Ill be incredibly nervous until I see my acceptance email (especially given I have a flight + hotel booked). FWIW – I reckon there was maybe 750 of us in Cluj?
danny, istanbul is a pretty long way to go just to make sure i got a credit and therefore a ticket to a later game. surely if i had that plan i wouldn’t go and gone on thomas cook? i didn’t go knowing i’d nearly lose my job, it all kicked off afterwards. don’t get misty eyed, just as no one is misty eyed over your terrible situaton.
istanbul was a fantastic trip and well worth it, not trying to make sound a hardship by the way.
remember all the boycotting of all sponsors when glazers took over, well MUST etc forgot to boycott utds travel partner. wonder if the same people complaining forgot there principles because they use utds sponsor. i would call them hypocrites or am i wrong
I’m booked up for Madrid, little chance of getting a ticket with zero credits (and rightly so) but didn’t want to miss this ‘glamour tie’ as people put it. Some people just need to be honest and admit a tie like this is a big one and generates more interest. The credit system is spot on, sorted me out a few years back when I did Valencia which resulted in a Chelsea away tkt. This time I might be sat in Madrid not getting in but there’s worse places to be on a Wednesday night…
I’m a member with no credits and whilst I’d love to be at the game, I’m not going to moan when the inevitable chubbing comes through. The system is fair. As Lakey said, I’ll still be there chilling out in Madrid. Far better than watching it on Sky at home.
Don’t forget a lot of people with credits in the group stages will still use Thomas cook for the Madrid game !
So if they get 1000 tickets maybe 25% or more have booked previously ( just a figure guess of my own)
That still leaves a lot they have taken out of the ballot mind for 1st timers this year!
Personally I don’t have an issue with it for euorpean games ( not many get iversubscribed) my bee in the bonet is allocation or domestic aways
Tony, what are you on about? Your post would make sense if MUST was block booking flights on TCS, instead we put a press issue today slating the TCS/ credit issue. I’m not really sure what you’re on about. But as with all things, MUST doesn’t tell anyone to do anything and people can do as they see fit re boycotting matches/ sponsors etc. We certainly wouldn’t instruct people to boycott a sponsor, nor would we promote/ encourage using them. Each to their own, as with going to games or not.
But generally, things are v diff to 2005 when the club was in serious financial jeopardy and what fans did could make a huge difference. Now, after refinancing, the IPO, new commercial deals, success on the pitch and the new PL Tv deal, the club’s finances are extremely stable. No one is forcing the owners out over boycotts, they’re stable, they will leave when they get an offer high enough. That’s a simple truth, so what people buy and don’t buy is about individual choice and what people feel comfortable with in themselves, whether that be match tickets or TcS trips or merchandise or a coffee in the ground.
This isn’t the forum for it, best discussed offline not here if you want am happy to.
Tony, this went out today from MUST, if you can let me know which bits you feel endorses TCS I’d be grateful.
PRESS RELEASE: No festive season cheer for Manchester United away fans
- West Ham reduce FA Cup allocation and won’t say why.
- Wigan take away more than 1000 tickets in away end to sell as corporate packages.
- Thomas Cook sell off Madrid tickets first-come first-served over the heads of loyal fans who travelled to group stages.
- Communication with fans reaches an all time low over these decisions.
- MUST, along with the editor of Redsaway.com, call for councils, safety advisory groups and clubs to have to consult fan groups on key decisions.
Manchester United fans have been incensed by a number of recent decisions affecting allocations and pricing at away games around the festive period.
First, the allocation for the FA Cup match on January 5th at West Ham should be set at around 5,300, the same as it was for the Carling Cup game in the same stadium a few seasons ago. While West Ham, Newham Council or Manchester United have not formally announced what the allocation is, we believe it to be under 4,500. No reason has been given by any party for the reduction and no liaison with fan groups was sought by any party in advance of the decision being made. Minutes from the local safety group will not appear online, and amazingly a request under The Freedom of Information Act to tell us the allocation does not need to be answered until weeks after the match is played!
Secondly, Wigan Athletic have decided (not for the first time) to treat Manchester United fans differently to those of all other clubs. Instead of offering the usual away allocation of over 5,000 tickets behind one goal, the club has decided to lower this allocation to less than 4000 and then fill the rest via their own website (rather than via Manchester United) to away fans paying £125 each to have a meal and ticket combined. We believe this to be unjustifiable and believe that any away fan in the stadium, let alone in the away stand without segregation between them and the official visitors section, should be ticketed directly by Manchester United. It is a precedent that is now being copied by other clubs when Manchester United visit, as seen at Bolton and Fulham last season too.
Thirdly, the exciting tie with Real Madrid has caused more ticketing issues. The club’s official travel partner, Thomas Cook Sport, have already put five plane loads of tickets on offer to be bought by any member or season ticket holder of Manchester United on a first-come first-served basis. These expensive trips do not give priority to fans with loyalty credits from previous games in the Champions League, unlike the club’s own ticket ballot which will prioritise fans who made the long trips to support United in the group stage games in Cluj, Braga and Istanbul. Thomas Cook and Manchester United have always refused to share information on how many tickets Thomas Cook are entitled to, sometimes leading to bizarre and unfair policies such as members getting a Champions League final ticket for Wembley in 2011 by buying a package, whilst over 20,000 season ticket holders were not even permitted to apply for a ticket via the club. It is time that Manchester United and Thomas Cook agreed to have a coherent and transparent system of allocating tickets, so that Thomas Cook can still fill up their trips but giving priority first to those who have accrued loyalty credits recognised by the club.
MUST CEO Duncan Drasdo said:
“The theme that remains constant through many away ticketing decisions is the lack of transparency and information given to fans. We are rarely part of the decision making process on away ticketing issues, despite being the people most affected by decisions. More safety groups, councils and football clubs need to change their stance and liaise with supporter groups when discussing safety, allocations and policies. We are calling on the FA and Premier League to help set up a new framework for away ticketing decisions that ensures fans are consulted in the future. Evidence suggests that, when fan groups are consulted, the problems that safety authorities have raised are far more likely to be solved.”
FSF caseworker Amanda Jacks said:
“The FAs Crowd Management Good Practice Guide states that there is plenty of evidence to suggest fans behave better when they feel included. Supporter groups all over the country are keen to be included as part of the solution rather than just seen as the problem. Fans are the largest stakeholders in the game and wed like to see more proactive communication between the authorities and fans.”
Oli, would like your opinion on something I over the last 7/8 years I have been to 75% of united aways, including bursa which probably had a lesser following than gala this year (but was a top trip) I moved to Dubai for work this year which from previous posts I know you also did, think you mentioned 00 n 03 missing the Madrid trips, and yes I have been frustrated in the past with TCS but this time round having no credits this year I have booked on with TCS to guarantee ticket, yes I could most likely get sorted from various other means, and yes if we pulled out a lesser draw I probably wouldn’t have gone, but my point is does someone who has been to one away this year deserve a ticket for Madrid more than myself who has been to 75% over the last 7/8 years? But without TCS I would be in the same ballot as a member who has never visited OT?
James,
Based on the loyalty over the past 7/8 years I don’t think anyone would begrudge you a ticket. If anything, your case highlights how ridiculous the TCS system is that anyone can rock up and guarantee a ticket. Otherwise, IMO the ticket collection works well. There has to be a system and for me, it’s pretty fair.
All I would change is STH > Members if credits tied. And credits would roll for 3 or 5 seasons, rather than just the current one – Ifthat was the case you’d have been okay for Madrid independently.
And finally, Bursa was a fantastic trip. One of my favourites in recent years.
Luke, thats exactly it its human nature to complain and no matter what system is in place some people will be happy others will complain, being on both sides of the fence I have berated official travel partners for years as many on here do, but then this year am I equally grateful for the service, I agree the system isn’t fair but what systems are? Football is a business more so know than ever and without united giving 1000 tickets TCS/ corporate sponsors etc we don’t get the influx of cash and the RVPs of this world, so for me the systems is a necessary evil. I know people will say they are looking for an improved service rather than a perfect one but i again would come back to my specific situation this year, where even with what many on here propose loyalty would not be rewarded. Wigan allocation and corporate packages is just blatant discrimination and a totally different subject.
Yeah, I think we all agree there will never be a perfect system but it’s about finding the fairest and TBH I don’t think the current one is a million miles away.
In your case you’ve played the system well and sounds like the ticket is going to a deserving home. I do most Euro aways and do use TCS from time to time. They’re a bit over-priced but not massively so when you think what’s included – transfers, don’t need to pay for a hotel etc. They’re incredibly convenient and it’s nice to get back to your own bed that night for the hangover to kick in.
Luke/James,
I wouldn’t begrudge anyone a ticket who goes to game after game after game. It’s not exactly the same as someone who never goes then expects for Madrid.
Personally I’d prefer a euro away credit system that looked at 3 years not 1, as I often have an issue with going to the first away, but that’s not such a big deal.
Oli
I think credits over 3 years would be better than 1 but would there not be problems with newer season ticket holders becoming successful because there will be so many with credits it wouldn’t really allow a chance for new season ticket holders.
Daniel,
I don’t see how it would negatively impact on new season ticket holders that much as few group games ever even sell out, so that would be an easy way to get credits.
Also, I’m sure there are people out here who partly do one group game to get on the credits ladder each season, and this would remove the incentive to do this and free up spaces for others. If we had drawn Porto, Milan or another place I’d been so many times for the group stage (instead of Madrid) I’d have reluctantly gone and would have been more likely to save the cash and not bother if it wouldn’t affect me for the next round.
Lastly, even of it did impact on new ST holders, I don’t think it matters that much. Either they plan to watch United for the rest of their lives in which case waiting a year or two to do euro aways isn’t a big deal, or else (like many) they’ll get an ST for a season or two, realise its more effort than they thought and give it up, in which case not bothered if they get to do euro aways or not. That’s the logic for current consideration to not let new ST holders apply for domestic aways, which I think will happen.
Oli
Oli do you think there may be a chance if we get an allocation similar to man city/spurs & there is increased interest United would push for more tickets like when we played braga?
Lookingforeric, I doubt it as Madrid can sell out easily, there is no case for us to even bother trying. Braga have never sold their stadium out, it was common sense for them to give us more rather the have more empty seats. Spurs had over 10k applications and couldnt get more.
I think the first ticket allocated to anyone should be to Danny. What a mong. Just shows were are support is going when he argues loyalty and out of his self greed he thinks he deserves a ticket.
I completely agree with the topic, it is only fair that if people were willing to make the sacrifice of spending a lot of money and time going to these away matches (which in all honesty were bound to be a bit dull) are given priority. I didn’t make the sacrifice and I accept that I will struggle to get tickets now because of it. I am a season ticket holder, I go to every game and I apply for every league away game (Crystal Palace last season when it went to extra time…. jesus christ every fan that stayed till the end deserved a medal.) With the current TCS policy, the thought that a random fan that bought a One United membership last week could get a ticket above me is pretty grim i’m not gonna lie. It is only fair those of you who have been to previous European away games get priority.
I am however going to be a little cheeky and play my cards as I have a relative that works for TCS which I have already spoke to in trying to get me a couple of tickets for the game, not holding my breath but it’s worth a shot, i’ll be singing as loud as the rest of you if I get a ticket.
Goodluck to all of you applying in the ballot.
Everyone seems to be making the same point over and over again… how many different ways can we say TCS is’nt right (however we will still use it as i went to loads of euros in the past and feel I deserve a ticket)
Oli sean bones your SPOKES PERSON gave a press release to boycott utd and PRODUCTS. You play on words well who was he trying to encourage. This isnt the place you say to bring up GLAZER. I brought it up in the context of peoples so called principles on madrid useing TC and i used the ETC. THIS SITE USED TO BE ABOUT TRAVEL BUT ITS NOW USED AS A MOUTH PIECE LIKE ITS A FANS GROUP PROTESTING ABOUT ANYTHING. OLI/VITTY STICK TO TRAVEL AS IT WAS INTENDED
Everyone seems to be making the same point over and over again… how many different ways can we say TCS is’nt right (however we will still use it as i went to loads of euros in the past and feel I deserve a ticket)
Tony, that press release was presumably either a) when the takeover happened or b) for a short period directly in relation to the ipo launch. It is not a general policy to instruct or order fan to boycott sponsors. You can’t tell me what MuSt says or meas when I write half the stuff.
You are also ignoring the must press release pasted above. Thoughts on that please?
Why are you shouting in capitals?!
Mufcdave, agree!
By the way Tony, I do agree that this forum is best when avoiding the politics and is a great resource for ticket/ travel info shared by match going fans. Just when other stuff does arise in the comment section, people will naturally air views.