United have not been able to do the ballot for West Ham away. This Q&A looks at why this may be.
Q. What happened when we played West Ham earlier this season in the FA Cup?
Newham Council, which issues Upton Park’s safety certificate, held a safety advisory group (SAG) meeting to discuss what safety measures were needed in and around the away end.
Q. Why?
They were concerned that, because we were entitled to more tickets in the cup than in the league, there was potential for safety problems.
Q. What kind of safety problems?
We don’t know. We asked the SAG’s deputy chair and another person who was at the meeting what happened, but they refused to tell us.
Q. But surely, we the people who would follow the safety measures had a right to know about it?
According to everyone in the world except Newham Council – yes.
The SAG is a council-run publicly funded committee which, according to the Ground Safety Advisory Group, should publish its minutes quickly after meetings so interested parties like fans’ groups can see them.
Q. So did Reds Away raise this?
Yes. We asked for the minutes and the council said “no”.
We put in a request under The Freedom of Information Act and the council said “no” arguing that the SAG members might feel like they can’t make decisions in future if their discussions are made public.
Q. Did Reds Away appeal?
Yes. The result was due yesterday but Newham Council us if we’ll wait until Thursday.
We objected to that.
Q. Why Thursday?
The SAG meets again on Wednesday and the council wants to give members a chance to check that they are happy with the meeting minutes (even though they already had chance to do so two months ago).
Q. What else might be happening at this meeting?
As you’ve probably worked out by now, we can only guess at what goes on behind closed doors (even though we pay for the meeting to take place), but we suspect they will recommend measures that need to be taken for the league game against United.
Q. Why haven’t they done so sooner?
To the SAG, the kick off could be crucial.
A 12:45 game would be likely to result in a higher allocation than a 20:00 kick off, as there’s less drinking time and less potential for problems.
So it stands to reason that they waited until after the outcome of the United – Reading game to judge the likelihood of a late kick off.
Q. But the date and time is still to be fixed. Shouldn’t they wait until that’s sorted before they make their decision?
In theory, yes.
But practically, they have to give West Ham time to use the safety recommendations to come up with an allocation, give United time to run the ballot, notify applicants and send out tickets and it’s possible that waiting for the date to be fixed might hinder all that.
That said, there’s nothing to stop them forming two sets of recommendations that West Ham can put in place depending on the kick-off time.
Q. What other factors are likely to influence what recommendations they put in place?
The police report from the cup game.
We asked for a copy of this a month back and are expecting to get the report today.
Q. What allocation do you think United will get?
We’re entitled to 3,000 and we got 2,900 in 2009/11, but this fell to 2,200 in 2010/11 due to what a GSAG inspector called “poor behaviour” which “can lead to a build up of dangerous conditions”
Q. When is it likely to be confirmed?
Early next week.
Q. What does Reds Away and United fans’ groups think of all this?
It would be hard to make a judgement on why they have recommended safety measures if we don’t know a) what they are and b) why they feel them necessary.
Generally, fans’ groups accept the measures, offer to help inform fans about them and try to get a guarantee that next year’s allocation will rise if there are fewer or no problems.
What concerns us is that West Ham and Newham Council are a million miles away from other councils when it comes to talking to fans’ groups and being open and transparent.
MUST, Reds Away and The Football Supporters’ Federation are working hard behind the scenes to change this, but it could be a few years before we see real change.
On the basis this game is definitely off, anyone know why it hasn’t been rearranged yet? Waiting to see how we get on next week against Madrid first?
Si it depends which theory you subscribe to as to why the delay. I’d imagine united will want it played sooner rather than later if we beat Madrid just to avoid even more fixture congestion but obviously if we do go out next Tuesday there’s then plenty of free midweek’s to fit it in.
Interesting to read in another thread that the allocation number has now been revealed (1,992) & was in fact decided last December which makes you wonder why it’s been kept so secret for this long.
Me, do you actually have the credit for Madrid showing, ie “collected ticket in Madrid with ID”, or just the ticket booking and cost showing from when ballot was done?
Having said that, my Madrid credit is now showing – was processed yesterday.
Pete, on West Ham allocation, it wasn’t actually decided last December, that’s just when a recommendation was made. That then goes through lots of other hoops before it is confirmed, and that only happened the other day. They should now be able to do ballot, though not sure if they will before there is a date.
In my view, should just have arranged it for a few days after original fixture, so that it is out the way before any possible fixture congestion. But having not yet announced it, I cannot see it being March 13th now, not enough notice. We could now find ourselves with that needing to be arranged, the City game needing to be rearranged if we draw with Chelsea, and the Stoke game being rearranged if we reach FA semis. If all those have to be rescheduled and we remain in Europe, that’s a lot of games!
Oli “collected ticket in Madrid with ID”… my was processed on tuesday.
Oli I was chubbed in both ballots for madrid but I dont have a credit showing on my account, does it show up in the booking history?
Oli – not forgetting Swansea at home if we reach the cup final!
I suspect the ballot will only be done when the date is known because WH will want to print the correct date on tickets to guard against people using old tickets.
Bar will be closed during the game.
I was at madrid game but still haven’t got my credit yet, anyone else on same boat? It’s bit wierd as they are usually processed 14days after!
I was chubbed in both ballots still no credit ?
Where does it say where you get a credit? I went to madrid and cant find mine
Tommy, on the tickets section of the website, login in and then go in to your account history. It should say ticket collected with valid I’d if you click on the various/dated transactions, it drops down to reveal what those transactions are. One of the more recent ones should be your credit.
Cheers mate, thanks for your help
Maybe its only showing credits for people who was successful an i was chubbed in both ballots an there isnt a credit showing on my history.