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Reds Away comment – Euro away credits: Your views needed


Many would agree that the pre-2010 European away credit system was a shambles.

People could apply for matches, get tickets, sell them on, make a nice profit AND get a credit.

So in theory, someone could get tickets to all latter-stage away games just because they happened to get lucky in the first Euro away ballot of the season.

When United changed the system in August 2010, the culture changed overnight and, suddenly, the most-travelled fans were getting first dibs on tickets (except for finals, but that’s a debate we shall leave for another day).

However, some might argue there is a flaw in the new system.

In the case of this season, we’ve got 1,500 tickets for the second away game at Real Sociedad.

Priority will go to those go to Donetsk (it could be anywhere between 300 and 900*) and the remaining tickets will go to anyone who gets lucky in the ballot.

And here’s the point:

We want to know if you think

a) this is the fairest way of doing it, or

b) if it would be fairer if the tickets remaining for Sociedad after Donetsk goers have been sorted out should be given first to those who went to the most Euro aways in 2012/13?

Finally, it’s worth noting that those who unsuccessfully apply for Sociedad tickets will still get a credit, so they will still have a decent chance of getting Bayer Leverkusen tickets.

Please write your views in the comment section below.

Like many things, United will only change things if they know people want to change them.

All your views will be forwarded to the club.

*Based on two separate – but unconfirmed reports today that 900 people had bought Donetsk tickets.

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148 comments to Reds Away comment – Euro away credits: Your views needed

  • Micheal

    Agree & disagree Dave. A proper loyalty system is needed to be introduced but unfair to do it after first ballot. Next season most defintley. A bigger issue on it is ST holders having more priority over members when equal with the same number of credits. Also I must state Europe is far less of an issue then the domestic front that needs a drastic overall change, the picture doing the rounds on twitter with the 5 Asians with there tickets and half/half scarfs the mongs makes my blood boil.

    Can I ask Dave has the club ever considered doing a points system for apps on domestic front were Europe counts for that ? Would cut out the 8k apps for games when we don’t sell out for most games abroad

    Everyone needs to just relax aswell no one knows if this will be oversubscribed yet, but we should Defintley act for next year.

  • Buzzy

    Option B. Although agree that it should be brought in for next season.

    Personally I have 2 credits from last season, 1 credit from the season before that, and I have travel & accommodation booked for both Sociedad & Leverkusen so clearly if option B or a variation of option B was introduced for the Sociedad ballot I would benefit, just think I would be unfair to effectively move the goal posts now (although I wouldn’t complain if they do).

    Clearly what should happen now is that the Club should look at this situation and change the rules to start from next season, this would give everyone plenty of notice and they will know where they stand. The fact that the club has not already introduced a loyalty system for when this situation occurs seems a bit daft, and looking at previous seasons credits is the obvious solution and fairest way.

    Appreciate that this system may not allow reds new to euro aways get on the ladder, but there is always TCS that will allow them to get a foot on. It would be good if tickets that go to TCS are capped at a certain percentage to stop this route on to the ladder been abused.

  • tony

    Oli why do you want to do this poll.

  • David MUFC

    Just a quick question. I was successful for Donetsk ballot. When I collect my ticket in Donetsk I will recieve my credit. Im also applying to Leverkusen with a friend without a credit however. Will this decrease my chances of getting a ticket or increase the chances of him getting one if we each go on the same application.

  • Sparky (Mark)

    Option B.
    Few of us done missed Cluj, done Braga, Istanbul and Madrid last year. We’re not doing Donetsk so our credits are reset and we’re back to square one along with everyone thats never done an away game before. Its common sense to change it.

  • Jonny (@Braga_POP)

    I’m in favour of a resolution put to the club for immediate implementation. Hopefully United can be persuaded to see the need to tweak the system to iron out this big flaw. Sooner, rather than later this situation will recur.

    Why not carry the Euro away credits we gained last season all the way through the current campaign so that loyalty is rewarded more. Is it right to travel to all four last season, miss Donetsk and then lose out on tickets for the next one or two trips. (speaking as a season ticket holder with four credits)
    All STH/Exec should be sorted before members with equal credits.

    Unsuccessfully applying for tickets should be rewarded with a credit. Also to lose a credit (or future credit) for non collection will help cut speculating.

    New Reds wanting to do Euro aways? There was plenty of space at Gala last season and only 900 or so going to Ukraine.

  • Kev

    David it would decrease your chance vastly as you’ll be classed as having no credit, same as friend, certainly apply separate. If you still choose to apply together and were unsuccessful, Im not sure if you would get the credit, but your friend would get his.
    Dave P(good to read insight from a forum member, would be good if more forum members posted online, not just minutes of meeting online months later.

  • Jonny (@Braga_POP)

    *I am going Donetsk

  • Bryan

    The current system is the fairest way. Those willing to go to Donetsk (me included) and have credits from last season will obviously be fine for Sociedad, and rightly so. It’s harsh on those with credits who can’t afford/get time off work for Donetsk and want to go to Sociedad, but that’s just how the fixtures fall.

  • Jonboy

    Do u get a credit if you travel with TCS ?

  • Oli

    Tony, Vitty’s blog, Vitty’s post etc not mine. But I do strongly support it because it is an issue raised repeatedly by many Reds and one which given the answers to this poll would be overwhelming well received by fans. It is also because there is an actual opportunity to change the policy unlike many other ticketing issues which are not realistically going to change imminently.

  • Oli

    Hi Bryan, not one person on here is saying people who go to Donetsk shouldn’t be ticketed for Sociedad first. The proposed change wouldn’t affect that. It is about what happens to remaining tickets after people like you who’ve been to Donetsk are rightly sorted and whether it is a random ballot for those on no credits or whether it then reverts back to last year’s credits.

    I totally agree that people who go to Donetsk should be ticketed and prioritised first. But after that, should a fan who has never been to a game before maybe even lives and Spain and buys a one United membership today have the same chance as someone who went to all Euros last season but misses Donestsk? For me that’s the question in hand.

    I think it goes without saying that not that many are doing an expensive and hassle trip to the Ukraine and each person who does should be rewarded for doing so.

  • Higgo

    Jonboy, yes you do get the credit for travelling with TCS.

  • Pip

    Firstly, given it is sooo hard to get domestic aways I strongly support having a separate system for this. Also the cost involved to support on European aways is significantly higher.

    As someone that has both benefited and lost out on the current system, reform is definitely needed in some shape or form – that said we all know the system and no system can be totally fair.

    Since 2003 my wife and I have gone to numerous away games in Europe – we are
    both into double figures.

    In the past I have been the STH and I have bought a membership for my wife when she has wanted to come with me and it has a great way for us to explore different cities. Since 2008 (after Moscow) alone I would say my wife and we have been to about 6 or 7 away games.

    In 2011, we both WENT to a 3 away games. However, under the rules my wife did not qualify for a ticket for the final – is that fair? A similar thing happened with her in Rome

    That said. Last year once the Madrid game was announced again I bought a membership for my wife (in hope) and somehow we were successful in the ballot – Is that fair when so many STH were unsuccessful?… Nope. Interestingly she was then unsuccessful for the home leg!

    Also is it fair that someone who simply applies gets the same amount of credit as someone whom it is proven has gone? It costs nothing to apply, but to go to the games it is pretty expensive and many people apply in the hope they are unsuccessful. Whilst at the same time we need to give new applicants the opportunity to get tickets.

    My view is that a points based system is required, with points lasting say 3 years.

    With every application you get say 8 points
    If you are successful and you attend you get 10 points (2 additional points)

    Members should be given the right to apply for final tickets BUT in the event they have the same number of points as season tickets, priority is given to season ticket holders. Though under this scheme, this problem is less likely to occur.

    This may make it too complicated but to help newbies, (I accept TCS is there – so not stuck to this), we could make it so that once you move into a new season your previous seasons points are halved.

    For example:
    YEAR 1: Current year you have attended 1 game: 10 pts
    YEAR 2: Last year you attend 4 games – 40/2 = 20pts
    YEAR 3: Previous Year you attended 1 games – 10 / 2 =5pts

    Total = 10+20+5= 35pts

    If we want to place less focus on year 3, we could half the points again so make it 2.5 instead of 5.

    Interestingly, this my wife has now become a STH – And I fully support the fact she cannot apply for domestic aways for 3 years.

  • Pip

    Ps what to run simple polls check out survey monkey

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/

  • mark

    Option B is the fairest in my humble opinion. Can someone tell me the 1,500 tickets quoted for Sociedad does this include or exclude the Thomas Cook trippers. If it includes them, this is grossly unfair, and means that any Joe Soap can buy a membership and guarantee a ticket ahead of someone who has been to every euro away for the past few years. Surely this can’t be right? Or am I confused….often happens…..

  • Oli

    Mark, 1500 includes around 400 on TCS.

  • Michael

    Oli, In your opinion do you reckon everyone will be sorted for this ? A few of my mates who are doing donetsk are using TC for Sociedad because they dont have the holidays and want to do leverkusen aswell. Id say a few are doing that with Donetsk as it will take up a good chunk of peoples holidays plus add that to not many people doing donetsk anyway that will do sociedad like the eastern european reds. I reckon everyone will have a good chance. Thoughts please ?

  • Oli

    Michael, predict loads of rejections. 1500 is a very small allocation. I’d imagine around 3k want to go.

  • Charlie

    I have resigned myself to the fact that I will be watching utd in the pub in Spain. Will no doubt be hundreds more

  • Shane

    Michael, just echoing others, Braga last year had a bigger allocation and people were chubbed for that so no doubt in my mind that numbers will miss out on this one. The particular circumstances of a low allocation that will not meet demand is why the proposal that initiated this thread was/is in my opinion a fair and good one (i.e. Option B) as it sticks to the principles of the current system with just some sensible application to look back beyond one game (albeir prioritising those who went to Donetsk first).

  • Michael

    Oli i dont think 3K will be near the number for RS I reckon that could be the number for Leverkusen as that from what ive seen amongst mates that that is the popular one what you might find is lads trying to blag the system hoping to be rejected for the credit for B L. I expect a few will be rejected but tell me if im wrong the Braga allocation was 1700 so not that big of a difference. I reckon everyone is getting carrying away. It could be madness though some lad could have 2 credits from the groupstage after been rejected twice for RS and BL which will cause havoc for the KOs aswell.

  • Kev

    I agree Michael, BL will be the most popular trip, Sociedad is in a difficult part of Spain with not many routes from N West without changing flights via various cities and adding days to trip, getting to Leverkusen is easier and cheaper. Wouldn’t have been many more than 2k in Braga and that was most popular group game, expect similar for RS, Leverkusen should see the most failed apps if 1,500 or 1,800

  • Michael

    Kev, Good to see im not alone on my stupid logic.

    Also another thing to factor is 2 euro aways in the same month with RS been not easy to get to as Kev says I dont think therl be the numbers what everyone expects in RS. I reckon there will be a mancunian invasion in Leverkusen rather then RS if anything. Also another thing to factor is the cost of November on the domestic front with Fulham/Cardiff/Spurs all in month add that to 2 euro aways. I dont think therl be the numbers in RS, Might be rather stupid people applying to hope to be chubbed when tickets will be high and the good chance of been successful

  • Oli

    Hear what you’re saying Michael, but I’m just going on basis that any game not really far away always musters good support, and certainly usually more than 1500. Agree Germany is the most popular too, but still think enough will do this one. Ticket price ,ay put some off – I’ve got no idea what they will be but usually Spain aways are a lot these days.

  • Micheal

    Oli your not buying my theory? Im trying to be positive about the scenario as i cant make Donetsk so I am hopeful of a ticket for RS and BL. The second ballot could come to fruition on this one i reckon for alot of people. I reckon BL will cause alot more trouble for people i dont expect a huge allocation there either and im also hopeful RS might extend the allocation as im not buying an email sent to one of are lot. Ill wait for utd to confirm. As ive said in previous post mad to think someone could have 2 credits for KOs and not even attend a game which is going to cause a nightmare in KO rounds if we get through.

  • Oli

    Michael, I understand all that and it is all logical. But in the last few years we have taken more than 1500 to all near-ish always. Maybe the reality will be In the middle – oversubscribed but not 3k.

  • Micheal

    Oli, might not have a proplem with tickets for this now with the barren spell of 6 games under Moyes. Are support is a shambles full of spoilt c*^ts. A lad beside me in K yesterday was nearly battered by an

  • Micheal

    (Following on from last tweet didn’t mean to publish) another lad cause he was booing and when the prick was asked why he was booing because we didn’t play well and Moyes needs to know. Are support will be shown up big time now we might not have any proplems in the near future. Keep the faith reds.

  • Oli

    Micheal, I don’t think most of our European away regular fans are the sort to boo or suddenly stop applying for games. We didn’t boo after City. Just some spoilt brats there yesterday – not sure Moyes needed to hear booing to know it wasn’t a great result. I’ve ridiculed Chelsea, Liverpool and others for being quick to boo when results don’t go their way, sadly some of ours yesterday just as bad. It was dire, but heads up.

  • Kev

    Dont think Moyes can be blamed much for yesterday, surely urgency, alertness and movement is the least a manager can expect!
    Booing doesn’t do anything but highlight poor support and cause a bit of embarrassment to your fellow fans
    Our home support could come across as spoilt if run of bad results but wouldn’t expect our away support to be any different.
    Back Moyes completely but he needs to not contradict himself at times.

  • Shahbs

    Walking with the fans after game yesterday could not believe how many fans were saying moyes is wrong choice and some even calling for his head, granted we have not been great so far but this team has been in decline and the signs have been there for over 3 seasons now, moyes fully knws this but he will need time to rectify this and will need the fans support, could not believe performance and atmosphere yesterday worst iv seen in many a year, it’s like we didn’t care and the fans and players alike had such a defeatist attitude.

  • Oli

    Kev,

    I don’t want him out and too soon to judge him, and I defo didn’t boo, but Moyes has to take some responsibility. Ultimately the players were crap but manager’s job is also to motivate them.

    The team selection was also bizarre. Evra has been solid this season and was rested Wednesday, but still didn’t start. Rafael looked great Wednesday but didn’t play, instead Jones did who has looked dodgy at right back and was actually needed in centre mid. We then had Anderson picked over either Jones or a 27m signing who had also been rested Wednesdya and needs games. I’m glad Kagawa started over Young, but don’t know why he was taken off at HT as he was one of our brighter players. I know all this is easy to say with hindsight but it was quite an odd selection from the time the team was announced.

    Where I will give Moyes time is that he has barely seen certain players play, especially those who weren’t on the summer tour, and he needs to work out what he makes of different players and combinations.

    I think we all said it would take time and needed a period of adjustment, but at the same time and especially after Swansea we also did sort of expect miracles. We will be ok.

    Oli

  • Micheal

    Oli it was a comment with a bit of sarcasm thrown in.

    I can only think he was prioritising Wednesday with the team selection yesterday. Especially after last Sunday we could have done with a big result yesterday. Anyway onwards and upwards the good thing is that Chelsea and City who I consider are main title rivals are not pulling away from us, but I have to say Arsenal are looking good after the signing of Ozil it has given them a push an extra motivation and good feel factor around the place (Take note Woodward). Spurs also looking good there squad is very strong and a much better side now then last year in my opinion.

    Also Moyes was let down big time in the market, I cannot believe some people think we bid a £100 mill for Bale. I dont believe there is a pot to piss in and when we wont pay the extra couple of mill for Herera and then pay over what we had to for Fellaini if we had of met his clause earlier in the window it would suggest Woodward is out of his depth and hasnt a clue what he is doing.

  • Oli

    Michael, I agree with your criticisms but for what it is worth the Bale bid is true and actually we had cash to spend and were just too incapable to do it. Bale was never going to come so the bid was somewhat irrelevant anyway but United tried to move in when. Madrid were stalling.

    The powers that be would have spent a lot for a big name, ie a Ronaldo or Bale or Fabregas, but wouldn’t spend significant funds on a less sexy signing. Overpaying for randoms doesn’t help the club commercially, overpaying for stars does.

    We were a long way off the Herrera valuation, Everton were furious about our Baines valuation etc etc. Woodward wasn’t trying to be stingy, he was determined to land a big name to help his own ego and announce his tenure as CEO. He wants to be popular too, a big change from Gill who didn’t care what fans thought.

    Personally that’s all a big worry for me. We all know the manager needs to make these decisions, rather than the board saying they’d spend X for one player but not the same on another – that should be manager’s choice. Moyes is being quite candid that HE didn’t want the extra 10m spent on Herrera as he didn’t want to blow the club transfer record on a fairly unproven player, but only a few people will know if that is true or not.

    I am willing to give the club some slack on this window given the unique situation of a new manager, new CEO, contractual issues stopping Moyes acting before July and then them all being off on tour. I don’t think they’ll get that courtesy if another window is ballsed up again given the now unquestionable situation of us needing some new blood.

    I think everyone takes some responsibility for current mess. Moyes hasn’t been great w team selections, players in the shirt not showing the commitment they did last season, and board didn’t go out and deliver players the manager wanted.

    Still, long way to go and our job is to get behind the players and not boo them!

  • Kev

    Oli, fair enough, its all about opinions.
    Should motivation really be a problem given these are players we expect would want to prove their success wasn’t just down to Sir Alex and should want to prove themselves to the new manager, its a 2nd chance to some of them.
    He probably wanted to keep Evra fresh for tricky Donetsk trip and Sunderland, and evra playing to many games is given as reason for his bad form 2 seasons ago, also he has buttner and Fabio who will need the odd games, managers etc talk about importance of such big squads so ultimately have to accept those squad players do need the odd game, don’t think its unreasonable for one or two of those squad players to play against a non top 7-8 team.
    Agree Rafael should have played, his good form Wednesday, last season and the fact its a natural position for him should mean he’s number, I have recently read that Moyes is said not to be keen on Rafael, hopefully that’s not true.
    Suppose in the case of Jones, he’s having the same problem as Sir Alex that he highly rates him but doesn’t have a proper position for him, with Kagawa its awkward for Moyes that he needs him to perform now hence his comment yesterday but in reality he needs to trust him and give him a run for him to produce. Another problem for moyes is he seems to want to play wingers but those wingers haven’t played well for over a year, Young isn’t good enough and the position imo doesn’t come natural to Welbeck or Kagawa even thou he plays their for Japan.
    Glad to see nani playing a part and adnan getting his chance, it’ll come good.

  • Sean

    Option B without question

  • Micheal

    Oil, I find it hard to believe about bale in all honesty but you are in the know and know better contacts then I.

    Interesting point about not breaking the transfer record for Herera, Yes players aren’t what they are worth but it’s the going rate and if you want them you have to pay it, there’s no room for bargaining look what happend with fellaini, we thought they would crumble they didn’t much the same with us and Rooney and that was impressive by Moyes he said from day one he wasn’t going and he stayed true to his word. We just made a mess in that window. For Woodward to leave Australia for urgent “transfer business” is all well and good but don’t let us or the media know. It heaped more pressure on them and were very naive in making it public in my opinion.

    Don’t get me wrong about Moyes I back him to the hilt and it may take him a year it may take him 3 but one thing I am glad about is we didn’t get Mourinho and the circus he would have brought.

  • Oli

    Totally agree Micheal – about needing to break records, about Mourinho etc. I have some sympathy for the Australia issue as they had a number of journos pretty much with the squad the whole time so was obvious. The only major leak/ error was to name Fabregas. Every other target was leaked by other parties – eg Everton commented on being insulted by Baines/ Felliani bid, Bilbao leaked Herrera etc.
    The simple question is this – did Madrid talk about value re. Bale or Ronaldo – no, they paid what it took to deliver the right player. Bayern the same these days. When you see United’s profit statements, we should be doing the same. Still bugs me that we wouldn’t pay the few million extra for Benzema and got Owen instead!

  • Micheal

    Agree Oli RE Fabregas, just a bit silly and a bit naive over the window. Although I am critical of Woodward I will reserve making judgement on him till after the next 2 windows (January/summer). I stick by my comment from earlier with not a pot to piss in. Also that will be proven right/wrong in the next window as were in need of a few additions.

  • Micheal

    @barneyrednews: Club told Fans Forum they expect Sociedad to charge Utd fans Bilbao like too high prices for our tickets there – and will complain to UEFA.

    Quoted from Barney on twitter.

    €80 or so for a ticket it looks like if Bilbao is anything to go by,

  • blinky

    That may put people of applying if they havent already got flights/hotels sorted

  • Jonboy

    Had to work 5 consecutive sats at work to fund this trip, not surprised by price if true

  • Sparky (Mark)

    Any word on how many travelled away to Shakhtar?

  • Oli

    Sparky,

    Don’t know definitively but some educated guess work below….

    - at 3pm this afternoon club staff said to a mate that 400 out of 600 had been collected
    - press were briefed 600 were travelling in total, so assume the figure above does include TCS
    - people there told me it seemed like quite a few were Eastern European Reds in away end
    - my guess would be max 400 have a credit who also want to go to Sociedad but even out of that number, anyone who went to Donetsk on an exec ticket doesn’t get a ticket for Sociedad unless same person with same passport uses exec number for Spain too
    - TCS have around 400 for Spain but given lack of flights to both Ukraine any San Sebastian, surely around half will be people who do both with TCS?
    - If all that is right, there will be around 900 tickets out of 1500 left for people travelling independently to Spain without Donetsk credit

    Oli

  • Micheal

    Oli,

    Pretty decent chance for people going independently I would think. Just a few of my mates that did Donetsk are either going with TCS due to lack of holidays or arent going RS cause of cost and chose to do BL because its a cheaper option out of the two, thats just my group im sure a few are in that boat aswell.

    As i stated before second ballot could come to fruition for alot of people. Be very stupid people trying to play the system with the cost of ticket and not planning to go looks like it could be 80 euro or there abouts.

  • Charlie

    900 or so for the RS ballot, I would have taken that before last night to be honest.

    BL stands those wanting to do RS is good stead, it is the cheaper option and in recent years we have played far more in Spain than we have in Germany.

    If our last game was in Russia or a ridiculously expensive Scandinavian country for example, then I would be feeling far less optimistic about my chances of getting a RS ticket than I do now.

  • John

    Any idea on prices yet ? Also i would have taken 900 or so tickets left for independant travlleres after Donetsk, It may be more then that